Advice on using a whistle with a solid lead block on fipple

[happywhistling]

Hi there
I am fairly new to the world of whistling but have already become addicted to aquiring cheap second hand whistles.

I am concerned several of these acquisitions have lead on the fipple, especially one of them (the one on the left).

The one on the left is Vintage Tin Whistle by Joseph Willis,135 Euston Rd,London., in D.
The middle one is Generation C
The one on the right is an unknown B flat - with B flat engraved on the front below the fipple.

All 3 appear to have a wooden block inside. I quite like the sound of them but don't want to suck on lead. Any suggestions how to paint over the lead or have it replaced?

Thanks in advance

Tin whistle fipples by Paul Steven, on Flickr

[Jayhawk]

I'm partially responding simply because I want to be in the know when someone who has a real answer, answers...

However, I'm curious if the obviously lead beaked one plays as sweet as it tastes?

Eric

[Moof]

I'm not sure I would play anything I thought had lead in it, at least not more than occasionally.

If you wanted to play it regularly you'd ideally need advice from someone who understands materials well enough to know whether or not covering it up will work. There are amylases, lipases, and other digestive enzymes in saliva that could interact with any coating. Guess it's an individual judgement, though?

There are plenty of modern options, including vintage ones, with plastic or other metal mouthpieces – I guess I'm old enough now for the Gens I bought as a youngster in the 70s to be called vintage!

[fintano]

What Jayhawk says is a reference to the story that the ancient Romans supposedly put lead in their wine to make it taste sweet. Which may explain why some of those emperors were so squirrelly.

What I've heard it said in reference to lead water pipes is that it's not really hazardous, because after a little while a layer of lead oxide builds up, so the water doesn't pick up any lead. All the same, if it were my water pipes, I'd have them replaced.

I would think a layer of clear nail polish might do the trick, but I dropped chemistry in high school, so I'm no expert.

The remains of some of the members of the Franklin expedition show elevated levels of lead. People have attributed this to their having eaten canned food sealed with lead solder. But perhaps those sailors took along whistles to while away the long Arctic nights. One of those ships did have a piano, after all.

Or maybe lots of people in that era ingested a lot of lead. No one really knows.

There are some situations in historical re-enactment where one should really draw the line. It's one thing to get some groovy costumes, but I'm still going to the dentist.

[Mr.Gumby]

All 3 appear to have a wooden block inside.

Are you sure? It seems very unlikely. I have never seen a wooden fippleblock in this type of whistle. Solid lead plugs seem to have been de rigreur at the time.

[RoberTunes]

If you do eventually decide to use some sort of coating to seal the lead away from absorption into the mouth and then brain and then eventually running down the street claiming to be Emperor in search of a legion of chariots, I'd recommend checking out the strongest types of paint out there, and for that you should include looking at the paints they use to detail and repair automotives, and for exterior metal such as metal railings, fences and signs. Normal paints such as model paints and house paints will be much inferior for this purpose. Some are sold in cans that you can apply with a brush, and come in small size cans for touchups, so they won't be expensive. Some are in spray cans. You'll have to check lists of chemicals and finish hardness and durability, since warm saliva will be on it. Maybe that won't be an issue, considering how hard the dried paint is. I've used automotive paints to repair bicycles and other things around the house, including cars, and TremClad and other brands have paints that are extremely hard and durable when dried. And, as a bonus, you may help prevent unsightly rust. If doing so, preparing the surface properly is critical, so take some fine sandpaper and give the areas to be painted some light but complete scuffing up so the paint can latch onto it immediately and securely.

[David Cooper]

Looks like a job for food-safe epoxy, and you'll still be able to see the lead through it. Craft Resin is the type to go for, and you can use it for a host of household repairs. I make entire flutes out of the stuff, and some people repair their dentures with it too.

[Tommy]

I would not change the fipple. Very good chance the voice of it would change. Instead of a coating I would make a sleeve to fit over the head of pvc or cpvc.

I have also seen clear flexible plastic tubing that might fit over it. Then there would be no machine work to do.

[Average Whistler]

My #2 suggestion is epoxy. It's inert and more durable than paint or lacquer. My #1 suggestion is don't play it at all. If the fipple was made of uranium no one would play it, yet uranium is safer to touch than lead. You can't use lead-based paint on your walls, yet you would stick pure lead in your mouth? Just saying...

AW

[stringbed]

If all you’re worried about is the part of the block that touches your lip, any sort of insulating film would do the trick during a quick trial run. Taking instruments such as these back into regular service is a different matter. If the concern is lead being freed from the block during normal use, that concern extends to lead that may long since have migrated to other of the whistle’s surfaces.

Assuming nonetheless that the only risk is from the exposed parts of the block, the isolating coating on the floor of the windway would need to be extremely thin for it not to have audible side effects. The lead surface would also need to cleaned prior to the application of that coating to ensure proper adhesion. That operation, in itself, would free more lead than would a brief moment of curiosity-satisfying as-is playing.

[RoberTunes]

I like the epoxy idea. Some epoxies are just "epoxy" on the bottle, some are blends and some are "epoxy paint".
A possible remaining problem is the windway remains uncoated and while you are almost uniformly sending air
outwards into the windway, not inhaling through it (actually, even in normal play some inhale action can take place
at a much lower volume and frequency, but for a health issue like this, it's a concern), the uncoated lead (or is it uranium, as I read above, ha ha), is within a millimeter
of your mouth. What if the windway lead gets an insecure coating that gets loose if you use it or if you clean it. That may
not be much of a concern, it might be of no concern, but I'm not the expert on close-range material drift like that.

Lead is no joke, it's a nerve and tissue toxin. It wipes out musicians, as this recent article indicates, even though that older
situation of the lead contamination won't be repeated exactly, here we now have lead instruments going into people's mouths,
and have to be careful.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/09/world/be ... index.html

[ecadre]

As far as I'm concerned, they are non-playing historical items. There are plenty of tin whistles in the world, you don't need to stick lead in your mouth.

I have one with a lead block, it was in a group of other whistles I bought, and I have never played it; not even once.

[David Cooper]

A very thin coating of epoxy on the inside of the windway, primarily floor and walls - keep it off the ceiling - should only quieten it a little but will seal in the lead.

[Tommy]

Any alteration of this whistle could devalue it as a collectors item?

[David Cooper]

Any alteration of this whistle could devalue it as a collectors item?

Maybe, but clear food-safe epoxy would allow you to see the lead while making it safe to handle and play. Inside the windway, the epoxy needn't be thick at the exit end where it's likely narrowest - I'd apply it and then tilt it so that the excess can run down and out the entrance. Of course, there could be traces of lead inside the main tube of the whistle where it's been carried down by moisture, so that could do with a good bit of careful cleaning.

Importantly, after applying an epoxy like Craft Resin, don't touch it for at least a week and preferably a month as it takes a while for the surface to become fully tough, preventing it going cloudy and picking up scratches.